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BobBarney

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Reply with quote  #1 
Who was Jesus?   Jesus IS GOD.  Part of the Godhead made up by Him and a God known as THE FATHER- The Two Beings are GOD!   "GOD" is the English translation of the Hebrew Elohim.   Elohim does not mean 1 being is God, but it is the plural form of being 1.  School, for example.  There may been  one East Street School school in town, but there are many people who make it up!
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formerWWCGmember

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Reply with quote  #2 

Meet the Real Jesus

It’s time you met the real Jesus.

It’s time you knew Him as He was: sometimes brusque, abrupt and authoritative. Always thoughtful, philosophical and profound.

It’s time you knew that Jesus could be the kindest and most gentle human being on earth, showing boundless love, mercy and forgiveness to those who genuinely asked for it and were in a repentant spirit. But it is time to recognize that Jesus could also radiate blazing anger and could hurl swift, incisive indictments at all posturing egotists, self-righteous religionists, simpering crowd followers, or even at His own beloved disciples when they got out of line.

It’s time you knew that Jesus perspired just as you do; that He grew desperately hungry and tired; that He almost starved to death on one terrible occasion; that He suffered through the entire panorama of human temptations, passions and emotions which are common to us all; that He enjoyed food and drink; that He appreciated feminine beauty.

It’s time you knew that Christ could cry, shout, laugh and sing; that He could enjoy the rough camaraderie of men of His own age in an out-of-doors camp, or appreciate the glittering setting of fabulous feasts in the most palatial of estates.

It’s time that you realized that Jesus was not a vagabond; that He was a professional builder in the construction business, combining the technology of “modern,” first-century engineering with the art of the skilled craftsman.

It’s time you knew the Jesus who was admired by officers high in the Roman army, who became a puzzle to Pilate, who was hated by the Pharisees, greatly beloved by His disciples, held in awe by the masses, detested by Judas, deeply admired by a proud mother, intensely loved by John, rebuked by Peter, and who was just as intensely humanas you are.

Few know that Jesus was not born on or anywhere near December 25;

–that, as a boy, Jesus learned a profession; that He became the senior member in a construction partnership; that He owned at least one and probably two homes of His own; that He paid taxes.

–that Jesus slept indoors most of His life and frequently spent the night in the homes of very wealthy people, including Romans as well as religious opponents.

–that He was a personal friend of con artists, soldiers, fishermen, cheats, liars, thieves, crooked politicians, religious leaders and prostitutes.

–that Jesus did not come to save the world some two thousand years ago, that He has not been trying to save it since, and that He is not trying to save it today.

–that Jesus did not die of a broken heart; that He was not crucified on “Good Friday”; that He was not resurrected on “Easter Sunday”; that neither Jesus nor His disciples ever celebrated (or taught anyone to celebrate) Christmas or Easter.

–that Jesus had to prove to doubting disciples by incontrovertible evidence that He had truly been resurrected.

–that Jesus Christ is alive today, is planning to return to earth and has actually begun His “countdown” from heaven!

If your own values are those of the common person, the real Jesus may insult you, shock you, please you, challenge you, inspire you, surprise you, make you wonder. But He will never bore you.

For more Read:   https://www.garnertedarmstrong.org/the-real-jesus/

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BobBarney

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Reply with quote  #3 
Believe it or not, Mormons believe in a Mother God! (Of course, we know it to be really Easter!)

In the beginning GOD was two EQUAL beings. No Father, NO SON (John 17:5). The two represented not Father and Son, but two equal partners in a marriage. Equal. There are no sexes in heaven. No male, no female. This is not a queer thing, it is that spiritual beings do not have sex, and are not limited to a sex (male or female). God is rendered HE because all Hebrew and Greek words have a masculine or feminine form. In the NT the Holy Spirit is masculine, in the OT, feminine. For proof of no sex (Luke 20:34 and
Galatians 3:28)

After the fall of man, GOD made a plan to rescue us from our horrible fate. The one that became Flesh (Jesus) stepped down form His equality with God, lowered Himself in rank in order to become a man and die for our sins. Now that is LOVE!

In a Godly marriage, under Christ, a marriage is led by the man (The Father) and is over the wife (Christ) but the man and woman in the next life will be equal, as God was in the beginning.



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Originally Posted by HappyMammaof2

Wow...there's alot there to read!!

Also, I notice that you said the world is billions of years old... don't you believe in the literal interpretation of the 6 days of Creation?
 
Out of pure curiosity... since you mentioned that God the Father and God the Son form a "heavenly" family... and the duality of that is in the human family, where is God the Mother? We can only assume there was or wasn't one since the Bible does not indicate such a thing. And since the Godhead represents the family setting here on earth, why wouldn't there be a mother-like being as well? After all, there is a Father and Son...
 
I don't mean to insult, sound stupid, blaspheme or anything like that... but if I try to tell my children some of these things, it is definitely a question that will come up. Of course I can use the same ol', He just Is... never beginning, never ending, and always the same, but that doesn't quite satisfy my 10 yr old's inquisitive nature.
 
Thanks for the great post, Bob... it helps to understand Who we are reading about when we read His Word.

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RocketCrockett

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Reply with quote  #4 
Regarding the phrase "the only God," it means the only God family. There is no other God family, just the one currently consisting of God the Father and Jesus, but eventually going to have many millions. But still one God family.

Regarding the creation, there are a couple of excellent theories.

Theory No. 1: APPARENT AGE

Whenever God actually created the universe, he made it APPEAR to be millions of years old in that single instant. Just like when he created Adam, Adam was 20 seconds old, but Adam APPEARED to be a man of perhaps 20 YEARS old (just estimating that). Adam didn't look like a typical human being of 20 seconds old, which would be an infant. So remember this very important concept. God has created and can create things with apparent age.

Theory No. 2: UNSPECIFIED TIME BETWEEN GEN. 1:1 AND 1:2

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

(Possibly millions of years of unmentioned history take place before next verse)

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

So the Earth could, in fact, be millions of yeard old, and was merely RE-CREATED, or RESHAPED by God when He was finally putting mankind on Earth, to replace Satan and the angelic kingdom.

In Genesis 1:2, it says the Earth was without form and void. Many biblical experts say the word "was" should actually be translated as "became," and that would support this theory No. 2. The Earth BECAME without form and void. (The NIV Bible even offers the word "became" in its footnote for this verse).
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HappyMammaof2

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Reply with quote  #5 

Wow...there's alot there to read!!

Also, I notice that you said the world is billions of years old... don't you believe in the literal interpretation of the 6 days of Creation?
 
Out of pure curiosity... since you mentioned that God the Father and God the Son form a "heavenly" family... and the duality of that is in the human family, where is God the Mother? We can only assume there was or wasn't one since the Bible does not indicate such a thing. And since the Godhead represents the family setting here on earth, why wouldn't there be a mother-like being as well? After all, there is a Father and Son...
 
I don't mean to insult, sound stupid, blaspheme or anything like that... but if I try to tell my children some of these things, it is definitely a question that will come up. Of course I can use the same ol', He just Is... never beginning, never ending, and always the same, but that doesn't quite satisfy my 10 yr old's inquisitive nature.
 
Thanks for the great post, Bob... it helps to understand Who we are reading about when we read His Word.


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“Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car.” Garrison Keillor

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” ~ Patrick Henry [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
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BobBarney

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Reply with quote  #6 
When Moses wanted to know what to say to the Israelites upon returning to Egypt on his mission of leading them in the Exodus, he asked God, “When I come upon the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they say to me, What is his name: What shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: And he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you” (Exodus 3:13-14). “I am that I am” can also be taken to mean “I will be what I will be” or “I continue to be that which I continue to be.” “I am the self-determined one, the life self-inherent, the one who is, and who always will be: the Eternal.” (God is also called the “Amen,” meaning, the “So be it” or “So it shall be.”)

The Pharisees were familiar with Exodus 3:14, you can be sure. Thus, when Jesus plainly said He was that one who had said those words to Abraham ("Verily verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM."), it just about snapped their minds. Forgetting all legality, propriety, or due process, they flew into a blind rage, and “. . . took up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by” (John 8:56-59).

There are two other important scriptures relative to Christ’s preexistence.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1)

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.” (John 1: 1)

In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew word for God is Elohim. It is an interesting word with a plural form (the im ending.) A little research demonstrates that Elohim can indicate more than one person; and can be taken to mean a family of persons. Through many portions of the Bible, Jesus reveals a family relationship in both the family of God and the family of man. While Jesus is called the Son of God, He is also called the Son of man, the Creator and Author of human life, the first-begotten from all humankind, the “firstborn among many brethren” (Rom. 8:29), the Captain and Author of our salvation, and the soon-coming King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Notice that there is duality everywhere evidenced, not only in God’s creation, but throughout the Bible when members of the Godhead are revealed. Elohim means more than one, and while not necessarily limiting the number, many other texts prove there were the Father (who no man has ever seen at any time) and the Son.

Therefore, in our modern English language, the beginning text of the Bible would be more understandable if it were written thus: In the beginning the family of God, consisting of the Father and the Son, created the heaven and the earth!’

John 1: 1 is the second significant place in the Bible where the phrase “In the beginning . . .” is used.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made” (John 1: 1-3).Here, the Greek word, logos (word) is used in reference to Christ. None of the other disciples who wrote of Jesus’ life (Matthew, Mark and Luke) utilized “logos” in reference to Christ.

Perhaps the clearest scripture absolutely proving that the Jesus Christ of the New Testament was the same Being who was the Eternal Creator of the Old Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, is Colossians 1: 16: “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him.”

Millions believe there is life in outer space. Millions are enthusiastic about "UFO'S," about "close encounters" with beings from other planets. Dozens of books festoon bookshelves in major bookstores dealing with such alleged sightings and experiences. Imagine, if you will, this earth in its preadamic state. For perhaps countless millions of years, a great archangel called "Lucifer," which means "Light bringer," or "Shining star of the dawn," had reigned over a beautiful, jewel-like world, teeming with life. Lucifer was magnetic, beautiful; a "whispering enchanter" to all the angels subordinate to him. He was a charming, wonderful conversationalist.

        Following the original creation of our earth, perhaps four to five billion years ago, Lucifer was placed in charge of the whole world. With him were one-third of the angels. Notice how God's word describes the earth during that distant time, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

        "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created [Lucifer, like all the angels, is a CREATED being who dwells in the spirit world].

        "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth [two cherubs, or cherubim, decorated the mercy seat over the ark of the covenant, symbolizing the cherubim around God's throne]; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
        "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity [lawlessness; sin!] was found in thee. "By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

        "Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee" (Ezekiel 28:12-18).

In the original "Star Wars," Lucifer attempted to mount up above the clouds of this earth with his angels, and THROW GOD OFF HIS THRONE! Instead, God cast him back down to this earth! Christ said, "...I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" (Luke 10:18). The great Creator, who was the Logos; Jesus Christ in the flesh, was THERE when Satan rebelled. He was intimately involved! When the divine sovereign Family ELOHIM threw Satan out of heaven, he plummeted back toward earth like a hurtling meteor—flashing like a streaking bolt of flame and light! Christ said HE SAW IT HAPPEN! God cast Satan and his demons back out of heaven, a massive, gargantuan upheaval occurred. The earth was destroyed! Meteors smashed into its surface; the continents split apart; were submerged beneath raging, turgid seas that rushed back and forth. Billions of creatures were suddenly buried beneath massive layers of mud and silt. For perhaps billions of years, Satan and his demons were forced to remain in the earth's atmosphere, seeing only the vast, black, tossing seas; seeing the results of their attempt to overthrow God from His throne.

Their great space war had wrecked the solar system! Planets were destroyed. Venus became enshrouded in a thick, impenetrable mantle of gas. Clouds of space debris formed huge rings around the lifeless face of Saturn. Stars exploded. Fiery gases were hurled through trillions of miles of space. Countless billions of meteors and astroids were flung in all directions to begin their aeons-long journeys through the blackness of empty space. Ugly, misshapen moons, like captured astroids, began to circle the many planets. The lifeless, wrecked, empty hulks of planets began to circle the sun, held fast by its gravitational field. The moon, orbiting around the earth, was smashed time and time again by huge astroids; some up to 100 miles in diameter. Billions of years passed as each planet orbited about its neighboring star, held fast by the gravitational field of the larger body. Isostatic pressures, combined with the rotational patterns and orbits of planets and their moons, gradually caused them to assume a spherical shape from the smashed, jagged ruggedness of their violent birth. As the billions of years passed, the earth heaved above the seas time and time again, then subsided beneath the waves once more.

Of all the UFO accounts in the Bible, the one mentioned most often is in Ezekiel . It is a description of the throne of Jesus Christ! Here is the account: (NLT translation)

As I looked, I saw a great storm coming from the north, driving before it a huge cloud that flashed with lightning and shone with brilliant light. There was fire inside the cloud, and in the middle of the fire glowed something like gleaming amber.[d] 5 From the center of the cloud came four living beings that looked human, 6 except that each had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and their feet had hooves like those of a calf and shone like burnished bronze. 8 Under each of their four wings I could see human hands. So each of the four beings had four faces and four wings. 9 The wings of each living being touched the wings of the beings beside it. Each one moved straight forward in any direction without turning around.

 10 Each had a human face in the front, the face of a lion on the right side, the face of an ox on the left side, and the face of an eagle at the back. 11 Each had two pairs of outstretched wings—one pair stretched out to touch the wings of the living beings on either side of it, and the other pair covered its body. 12 They went in whatever direction the spirit chose, and they moved straight forward in any direction without turning around.

 13 The living beings looked like bright coals of fire or brilliant torches, and lightning seemed to flash back and forth among them. 14 And the living beings darted to and fro like flashes of lightning.

 15 As I looked at these beings, I saw four wheels touching the ground beside them, one wheel belonging to each. 16 The wheels sparkled as if made of beryl. All four wheels looked alike and were made the same; each wheel had a second wheel turning crosswise within it. 17 The beings could move in any of the four directions they faced, without turning as they moved. 18 The rims of the four wheels were tall and frightening, and they were covered with eyes all around.

 19 When the living beings moved, the wheels moved with them. When they flew upward, the wheels went up, too. 20 The spirit of the living beings was in the wheels. So wherever the spirit went, the wheels and the living beings also went. 21 When the beings moved, the wheels moved. When the beings stopped, the wheels stopped. When the beings flew upward, the wheels rose up, for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels.

 22 Spread out above them was a surface like the sky, glittering like crystal. 23 Beneath this surface the wings of each living being stretched out to touch the others’ wings, and each had two wings covering its body. 24 As they flew, their wings sounded to me like waves crashing against the shore or like the voice of the Almighty[e] or like the shouting of a mighty army. When they stopped, they let down their wings. 25 As they stood with wings lowered, a voice spoke from beyond the crystal surface above them.

 26 Above this surface was something that looked like a throne made of blue lapis lazuli. And on this throne high above was a figure whose appearance resembled a man. 27 From what appeared to be his waist up, he looked like gleaming amber, flickering like a fire. And from his waist down, he looked like a burning flame, shining with splendor. 28 All around him was a glowing halo, like a rainbow shining in the clouds on a rainy day. This is what the glory of the Lord looked like to me.
       
The Lord, as I explained earlier of the Old Testament is Jesus. This is what His throne looked like, a UFO!

Some think that this was God the Father's throne, but Jesus made it clear that NO MAN HAS EVER SEEN THE FATHER at any time! The Gos, seen in the OT is Jesus. Others ask, Jesus has a throne? I thought he sits on the right hand of God?

"Right hand" is an expression! Christ is not literally sitting on the Father's hand! When we refer to someone as our right hand man, we mean the person NEXT TO US IN AUTHORITY! Jesus has a throne

Matthew 19:28
Jesus replied, “I assure you that when the world is made new and the Son of Man sits upon his glorious throne, you who have been my followers will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

So, you see my explanation of UFO's. They are angels and demons that although not usually visible to mankind, can make themselves seen! I'm not saying that most UFO's are these beings. Most are natural events, that people have been honestly and dishonestly fooled by, but some are definitely from the spirit world.

One of the greatest examples:
In 2 Kings 6:15 We see an example where thousands if not millions of angels of the host of heaven were protecting the Israelites and they could not see them until Elisha prayed to God so the people could have their eyes opened and see the fiery angels in the sky waiting to do battle for them. Here is the account:

When the servant of the man of God got up and went out early the next morning, an army with horses and chariots had surrounded the city. "Oh no, my lord! What shall we do?" the servant asked.

    16 "Don't be afraid," the prophet answered. "Those who are with us are more than those who are with them."

    17 And Elisha prayed, "Open his eyes, LORD, so that he may see." Then the LORD opened the servant's eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.

    18 As the enemy came down toward him, Elisha prayed to the LORD, "Strike this army with blindness." So he struck them with blindness, as Elisha had asked.

Yes, UFO's do exist. Some are airplanes, some are weather balloons, some may be hidden man made spy planes, but some are ANGELS of God and demons!



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HappyMammaof2

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Reply with quote  #7 
In a reply Bob made about the aliens at the inauguration, it got me to wondering....
 
He said, "that Ezekiel describes God's (Jesus's) throne."
 
Well, does that mean there is only Jesus, and He is the only God? I thought God the Father had the throne and that Jesus would be sitting on the right hand of the Father. So...because I know there is no biblical doctrine for a Trinity, is God the Father and Jesus the One and the Same? Especially since Jesus is the God of the old Testament.....
 
But, then again, in Genesis, we know that God made man in 'their' image, so there has to be more than one God. So how many God's do we have? :-)

__________________
“Going to church no more makes you a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car.” Garrison Keillor

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” ~ Patrick Henry [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
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